Transcript

[0:00] Music.

[0:09] It's where we explore and celebrate our connections to Taiwan I'm Annie and I'm Angela.
And every episode we unpack an aspect of our heritage and experiences that have shaped our identity this week we look at politics and Taiwan although taiwan's democratic government is one of the newest in the world.
The people of Taiwan are pretty sharply divided between two ends of the political Spectrum.

[0:33] Taiwanese people know that to keep friendly relations with other Taiwanese people you have to avoid talking about politics.
This week we're going to try talking about it and see if we can still come out as friends.

[0:53] (Angela) Really nervous about this episode like we intentionally put it like toward the end of the season because we knew that we would have to lay a lot of foundation
before we could tackle politics 

(Annie) oh but do remember that this was actually in the beginning originally originally,
and then we tried to write the outline and.
I was like nope can't do it no yeah 

(Angela) I think it was like the first outline that you signed up to leave yeah and you're like this I'm struggling yeah.

[1:27] (Annie) Exactly like my brain hurts so much right now I don't even know what's happening and then we thought it through and we're like yeah you know what.
It probably makes more sense to put this towards the end yeah 
(Angela) I think even though people feel very strongly about politics and is part of their identity like their political viewpoints they.

[1:51] I think we had to do all of the understanding of like the history and the Heritage and the like where people were coming from before we could understand like how did they arrive at their political viewpoints
understanding Taiwanese politics is really essential to understanding Taiwan and people
really passionate about their politics but in most like
conversation you will hear people say we just we don't talk about politics because otherwise it would get really ugly
(Annie) yeah in the Taiwan talks Clubhouse room one of the key rules was no talk about politics
(Angela) yeah the subtle Taiwanese traits Facebook group they definitely allow politics and it gets inserted in like many many threads there and I feel like ooh touchy like some people I mean you really see the sides
clashing
with their viewpoints are that's fun and you'll I'll remember you talking about I think it was in our flavors of Taiwan episode with about the food you referenced how passionate people got in
Congress
in the legislature just as a normal course of running the government with the pig guts being thrown around I can't even imagine that as crazy as I think American politics are like I can't imagine that happening.

[3:09] In the United States I know right it just it's mind-blowing the way that things come out in the government
and it's not just in Taiwan right this kind of stuff happens in other places but it's still it's.
It's such a different way of operating but I can see I mean even when you look at the video footage you can feel the passion and the the the anger
behind all of this stuff because it takes a lot to.
Bring raw Pig guys that's premeditated exactly and then throw them at people yeah I mean.

[3:55] Yeah so that's that's it's really fascinating yeah it is intense intense is one way of describing it for sure.
(Angela) But as I said democracy is new and at least they do have the ability to.
Talk about different viewpoints because that wasn't always the case there up until the 1990s there was one party rule
in Taiwan like there it was a single-party system which doesn't feel great for the people because they don't feel represented it's like we're going to hold an election
they like claim to be a democracy but election only had one candidate and there was only one party represented so it's like
hmm guess who's going to win who's going to be the next president it's no mystery at all so.
In 1990 as a response to the latest election of the no surprise president there was a student movement that advocated for True democracy
called The Wild lilies movement and they they basically protested and said we want to
choose our own President we don't want it to be like only one person one choice it's that's not really a choice and the timing of that is really amazing because that 1990 timing of the protest it was only one year after Tiananmen Square
in mainland China and.

[5:25] The way that the communist government responded to him Tiananmen Square was basically massacring the protesters there so.

[5:34] It took a lot of Courage for the wild Lily protesters to ask for this from their government because just across the street people got murdered for that.
So presidential elections have been happening since 1992 and Taiwan and now how like how many parties are there 
(Annie) well they're really two primary
parties that are in play each time there's an election even though there's multiple actual parties it's the Kuomingtang which is the concern of some of themselves the blue
party and the Democratic Progressive Party the DPP which is considered the green party so.

[6:19] There's like I said multiple parties and it's a spectrum.
Of between dark blue to dark green and so there's
dark and light of each side but really the primary issue between the blues and the greens really boils down to Independence
from China
(Angela) like being ignorant I didn't know about the blue and the green until this year and so learning about it and reading about it helped me recognize where our family members stand,
on the Spectrum and also like figure out where we stand because I know that we.
I don't necessarily agree with our parents as many people don't agree with their parents on politics I kind of like
the color system with blue and green in Taiwan and in America it's red and blue that's been helpful 
(Annie) yeah color coding that's my jam.

[7:24] (Angela) Yeah so diving into a little bit more of like let's cover kind of like the the basic.
Stance of each of these two primary parties so
KMT has a longer history because it was the Chinese nationalist party that started in mainland China and then was ousted by the Civil War when the Communists took
took over and there the party that came to Taiwan and night the late 1940s and started governing their and.
Basically like they were the ones that were basically taking the.
Chinese government that they had set up and basically make concentrating it in Taiwan
stances have changed on things obviously they've embraced Democratic elections and they've apologized for due to a and white Terror but ultimately.
They are the biggest party in what is called the pan blue Coalition which is several political parties that are on the blue end of the spectrum and those blue.
Color parties are characterized by favoring.

[8:46] Policies that are friendly with China which means you have to acknowledge the PRC's viewpoint of things where like basically Taiwan and China can be
cooperative and treated as one entity and they support eventual unification with the mainland under certain conditions
so I think that the biggest nuance here is they don't necessarily say
yes communist take us in that's not what they're saying they actually view themselves as they are
the true China like we started to get this in our comments when we like when we were playing around with promoting our content on Instagram we started getting like some very
dark blue comments in our comment section which is not like our usual audience and we were like.
The true China sounds like a very polarized viewpoints.
But that was like that was the KMTs whole intent when they first fled China in 1949 was that they like
okay they lost the mainland temporarily to the Communists to the PRC and so they were going to regroup in Taiwan and then take back the mainland.

[10:12] That was like their their whole intent so they've always had this kind of view in their head as like Taiwan was a place for them,
that like they were able to still preserve the ROC the Republic of China.
But their eventual desire is to restore the Republic of China which means go back and retake the mainland which means.
Taiwan would be included with the mainland China as the whole Republic of China.

[10:45] So that's really different from how the PRC sees things even though they both view things as.
Taiwan and China both being China the Parc views themselves as being the rightful government but eventually in 1992.
The KMT which was the.
Party in power at the time came to a agreement of sorts with the PRC in mainland China and they it was called the 1992 consensus.
And this was they both agreed in this idea of one China but.
They kind of agreed to ignore that each of them views that one China differently so
the KMT views One China as the ROC expanding from Taiwan and taking the rest of the Mainland whereas the PRC views One China as.

[11:46] The mainland the way things are in the mainland soon pulling in Taiwan.
And in the other border territories.

[11:58] (Annie) Yeah it's interesting it feels like a very ambitious goal for the position of having Taiwan you know the KMT in Taiwan,
retake over PRC
it feels very David and Goliath it's an even more extreme level it does I'm not sure if
they still believed it but 


(Angela) I was like anybody who still thinks retake the mainland is possible I feel like is delusional like it's not it's not to be liked.

[12:33] (Annie) Critical but I just think like a like the sheer numbers it just doesn't seem feasible to me.

[12:43] (Angela) Unless there was some way to mobilize the people within China to revolt.

[12:49] (Annie) Basically yeah that feels like the literal only way you can just again.
Nothing's I guess impossible We are Never Say Never but.
It feels like a very long shot to your point if it's only people in Taiwan going back over and trying to somehow retake over
the PRC like you said yeah I could see how if you can get the within right like dismantle it from within but even then that's really hard even if you get all the.
The citizens of the man they had to revolt.

[13:34] It would be like a total bloodbath yeah.

[13:37] Because like what power do they have they don't really have any power and be like another Tiananmen Square but to an even larger degree yeah it feels like if anybody tried revolting yeah what have you so.

[13:52] Yeah,
so it is on defeatist like I know 
(Angela) so I mean I think the KMT probably has that as like a super long term strategy like maybe not feasible today but like.

[14:07] In the eventuality of like what they would like and I think that they publish maps that like basically includes the the KMT's view of where the ROC s
borders truly are but I think everybody agrees that like right now,
there's not really a hope of say overthrowing the PRC and so the best that everyone can hope for is cooperation.
With the PRC all of the,
the state emblems all of like the Taiwan identity like the Taiwanese flag and a lot of the signage and stuff that's based on KMT like the the.
Red and blue flag with the white sun on the blue rectangle in the corner that white sun on the blue rectangle is the KMT symbol so.

[15:03] I feel like that's that's feels very different for the citizens of the country and or people who are in The Green Camp because,
they don't like that the national flag
is so one-sided it's like a an artifact of that one-party system where the national flag is really the flag of the one party that wasn't rule so why not come up with a flag that.
Is more neutral now that there are multiple parties 
(Annie) it's like when somebody buys a house when they're single and then they get married and the spouse moves into their existing house or the house at that other their partner.

[15:46] Had bought years before they moved in and had all this like previous life before.
They got married including potentially previous spouses previous partner yeah parties whatever furniture and Cabinetry I bet this house yes you have like remnants of this past.
Either move to a whole new place that we buy together so that it's really representative of both of our perspectives into one or we need to get.

[16:16] Get rid of all this shit in your house now yeah and start over I want to be able to put my touch on this so that again it's representative of our.
Life right and not just your past and I just happen to live here yeah I definitely
I agree it feels like that that reminds I do it makes me feel like a Sex and the City episode covered that exact issue
(Annie) probably I'm sure of that
has been covered and a Sex and the City episode but yeah like the this idea that you're talking about with sort of the current state
the status quo.
Working to a degree feels like the commonality across all bands of this spectrum from blue to green right it's like there are things that people recognize.

[17:11] (Angela) That there are things that work about how things have been thus far so taking it to the DPP there's similar to the KMT so but on the other side they are part of the.
Group hand green Coalition which consists of multiple parties of which the DPP is one of them.
Right it's the major one just like the KMT is the major party on the blue side of the spectrum I think the DPP chose green because it was like Eco and because they were like anti-nuclear.

[17:48] And this is like when I when I read like how strongly the DPP and the green party's.
Like are on anti-nuclear as a part of their platform it made me realize like oh this is why my mom is like.
Pretty much dismissive of everyone who advocates for Taiwanese Independence because along with that party position comes the anti-nuclear stance and my mom was nuclear engineer
like that was her entire career like that was what she studying in college and so.
She worked her whole life on these nuclear power plants that like both of the brands that are installed in Taiwan
does she work for both of those companies and then therefore all of her classmates all of her colleagues like everybody around her they all are on this like pro-nuclear,
mindset and so she's been surrounded by people who are like advocates
and basically the Builders of the nuclear power technology and so I guess I could see why I like everyone that she Associates with
is on the blue side the KMT side because it's like well I guess you wouldn't join the party that wants to put you out of a job.

[19:08] (Annie) Frank to dismantle everything your life's work yeah basically so yeah I was like oh okay makes sense yeah okay so I remember years ago.
We were I don't know we're having dinner or something and somehow it came up this idea of.
Just power sources energy sources and your mom straight up
went off I didn't say anything I didn't have a position somehow it came up and she was like yo people think that all this
wind and water and solar energy it's going to be enough to power the world they're delusional they don't know what they're talking about there's no way.
That these natural sources of power like wind water and solar could be anywhere close to powering enough of what we need.
For the planet the only way to do that is through nuclear
it was either Fusion or fission I don't make a difference I remember alert looking it up shortly after that to understand because I've heard both words don't tell they're very different I don't know either I know I know
nuclear something that starts with an F fission or Fusion but the point was she was like the only way.

[20:28] Is nuclear and if we wanted to get off coal which is still the dominant form of power generation.
Exactly and she's like it's fine,
tell you still she's like I'm not saying you should get rid of solar when water like that's fine for like small-time whatever however a little town or like a few houses here and there but.
In the grand scheme of things
no way in hell I remember this to this day I want to see it was like we're in public high school or college it was so long ago but I remember her being so just like yeah
he'll now don't even try it yeah 
(Angela) I mean I yeah I know that like the proponents of nuclear are like basically you want clean energy like this is the cleanest saying it like because coal is,
you know horrible polluting limited whatever but I think that the anti-nuclear opposition does have a valid point because look at what happened in Fukushima.

[21:29] Like not that far away from Taiwan
like like they're on a huge earthquake faults so it's like not unheard of that or its
it's a very real possibility that a large earthquakes could do the same thing to their Town ones power plants.
But the the main difference I would say is from a longer-term standpoint
how they look at their national identity versus the kmt longer-term looking at the national identity of Taiwan right so in the DPP standpoint it's they,
really.
I mean they consider Taiwan to be independent like already right like they I've heard them say like we were never a part of China exactly and like I think like it's only.
The only reason they are thought of as part of China is because like all of these other like International treaties and stuff in the way that the other countries other parts of the world.
Recognize the region have lump them in with China and or thought of them as China's land to give right exactly 
(Annie) Exactly so so yeah so their whole thing is like.

[22:46] We want to have ultimately.
And Nash like our own Taiwanese national identity hmm right this is who we are we are our own thing stop connecting us
to China as part of this like we're just like one thing I might it's I'm my own person you're also Annie Wang here exactly so
so yeah so that's the big thing right it's about
like what you were saying to about this other part which is another big thing as from a global recognition standpoint uh right.

[23:23] Right now for the most part there's only actually 15 countries that recognize Taiwan as.

[23:29] And like its own person its own country yeah I want us Taiwan yeah right all policies and military action and all of these things I mean there's been.
Yeah a lot go I God recently about by then yeah having a voice coming up in the UN 
(Angela) we saw this we saw this when Taiwan was trying to get vaccines this year
for like because they were having a covid spike and.
Countries were like I wanted to you know send back scenes to Taiwan and the PRC was like uh you can't just send it directly to Taiwan you have to do it through us like you have to.
Yo arranged through us that we will say okay you can give these vaccines to I'm like nobody wants that.
(Annie) Yeah yeah it's like this like oh it's like being Britney Spears yeah it's like being Britney Spears into conservatorship.
- got a conservatorship.

[24:30] Over Taiwan I like putting IUDs in Taiwan and 
Telling Taiwan they can't go on a Hawaiian vacation and.

[24:42] But yeah it's like yes talk about we're like on a metaphor roll.

[24:48] To I mean that Brittany right is 
(Angela) like if the DPP is like status quo is great actually anybody who says status quo is great that's not possible anymore because the PRC is getting more aggressive.
Like Xi Jinping is like you know out there making statements like he's going to crush any attempts at Taiwanese Independence.
They're like doing all these military exercises around Taiwan to like show
we're ready we can invade you at any time like it's like total posturing right everyone's getting forced into a position because status quo is not.
Really possible to preserve because it's not Taiwan's fault it's the aggressor it's it's the PRC that's come in for,
all the lands I mean we've been seeing it in half calm with the weaker people in all of these other.
Lance that China claims with the DPP and just up and green Coalition in general right there.

[25:51] (Annie) DPP has been on the slightly more moderate side when it comes to thus far Taiwanese Independence and a position on that because I'm okay status quo is okay let's just kind of
figure out if there's a longer-term way to have this like true independent national identity but we're not just going to go like.
Balls to the wall and say fuck you we're going to be our own thing now it's.

[26:19] But it's now coming to a head where those that are darker green the the ideology of what has been considered darker green has to come more to the Forefront
(Angela) Thank you for clarifying for me that the DPP isn't like the darkest agreeing because I like not knowing anything I just thought that it was just a cam T in the DPP and like when people tell me that like their family is dark green like
I assumed it was like the DPP and whenever I hear I was talking about like in subtle Taiwanese traits whenever I see people comment the very like
purest views of like I reject the
red white blue flag it's very triggering for people on the green side to hear Taiwan referred to as a province of China but.

[27:09] All of the focus on semantics and symbolism it reminds me of one of my favorite shows insecure starring Issa Rae. Issa Rae has a neighbor
his name is Thug Yoda and he's a gang member and so he is die hard on the side of Bloods and so Bloods are known as you know.
They are loyal to the red color the opposing gang is Crips but he he's so like anti Crips that he would refuse to use the letter C in any of his language like C for Crips so he would replace
all the C's in his words with bees.
(Annie) So he's like "come sit on my Bouch" or "because of the human bondition".
This is so ridiculous.

[28:04] (Angela) Just a hilarious example of like taking it too far in terms of like rejecting something like an ingredient of your daily life just because you associate it with
the other party or think they're funny.

[28:23] (Annie) That's hilarious oh my gosh I feel like I have to watch this okay I love that sounds so funny yeah 11 squirrel oh my God.
(Angela) That's what that explains to me why like even though the DPP has had power has had presidents.
You know several times since democracy was established they haven't done all these things like change the flag or go and wage war on China or anything
but I think didn't they did change the passport right didn't the passport design.
Just say ROC before and then now it's just like driving in Taiwan on it 
(Annie) yeah and starting to slowly creep the Taiwan to be bigger bigger and bigger spot.

[29:18] It's like make the logo bigger that whole thing that like designers hey yeah clients like you just make the logo bigger.
Feels like one of those things yeah make the glow glow yeah bigger
next iteration just a little bit bigger yeah yeah it's like these little subtle things right that it's all about making you feel more.

[29:43] Recognized right like they just want to be like recognized and and.
(Angela) Not even the name Republic of China is like so offensive to them because they're like we're not of China.
Right yeah they want to do away with the ROC label whereas the kmt is like.
The ROC is the basis of like what we believe so right I think that's pretty vile Rising.

[30:13] It is it's all the it's so interesting I've went to her.

[30:18] I feel like we're may be swayed in our perception because of the people that we know one of the things that's really hard to understand,
about like when we dive into Taiwanese politics is because
the DPP where the green party's use English a lot and so they appeal to both there
Mandarin speaking citizens and English-speaking so we hear a lot of the English-speaking perspective and it aligns a lot with American views on like democracy and
and China to be honest but
the cam T we don't see that Viewpoint represented very much in the media that you and I consume because week only understand English we don't read Chinese so the kmt has a stronger
base then we can see because they speak to mandarin-speaking people who aren't out there advocating in English so,
our lens of things is very skewed green because of this difference in language and I read a road,
online that like the kmt doesn't really need to do English Outreach because they were the defaults they you know there that's one area where like it's hard for us too.

[31:38] Build a bridge other than through our parents.
It's hard enough to talk with your parents and like resolve things without trying to do political influence repair my gosh I'm gonna start on that yeah.

[31:55] No I totally agree it's I was definitely an interesting place that we're at you know in terms of.
Our understanding of this part of our heritage as part of history in this part of the world.
I mean shit I barely understand American policy oh yeah yeah alone like anywhere else that I live here looking for him raised here and I barely understand yeah
drives me crazy yeah but yeah so like trying to get into like the Nuance of some of any other countries politics.
Yeah it definitely takes a mental toll yeah but I think it's good because also even if it's mentally draining
it's good to see perspective like helps to get perspective right because there are similarities yeah between the thought processes and the conflicts the positives and negatives and to look at other,
governing systems across the world and.
See in a way it's almost like commiserate like okay it's not just us it's all sorts of jacked up totally.

[33:02] Well I think we've we've cover the main like viewpoints in Taiwan pretty well and I think the last.
Thing that we should really talk about is
the American perspective because America is one of taiwan's strongest allies and we actually I mean,
there was US military in Taiwan during white Terror we have a history of having troops in Taiwan having boots on the ground in Taiwan and also supplying Taiwan with most of its
arms most of its weapons and and military equipment.

[33:43] So just want to educate like why like why are we so interested in Taiwan.
It actually the u.s. kind of wanted to stay out of the whole like China Taiwan conflict in the 1940s 1950s but when the Korean War happened that's when the US was like.
Oh Communists are really like
getting really aggressive we got to have a basis in Asia to basically defend from the expansion of Communism so that's when they took an interest in Taiwan because time is like oh tywin's a great like
military location for us so they set up the u.s. Taiwan Defense command from 1954 to 1979 this was back when.

[34:34] The US recognized Taiwan The ROC as China.

[34:40] And the mainland Piercy was was like the Communist Regime that they were.

[34:45] Trying to discredit so they brought troops into Taiwan set it up as a base and also.
Educated the Taiwanese people to become effective soldiers and use all of this equipment
so at the peak there were 30,000 troops in Taiwan 30,000 US troops in Taiwan during this period in the middle of the nineteen hundreds and they supported the kmt defending Taiwan from
from mainland China but Chung Kai shek in Taiwan he was still on his retake the mainland Mission and
the US did not want to help Sean Kai-shek retake the mainland so that's where the support ended is like we're here for defense we're not here for offense we're not trying to help you take over or the rest of China
but since 1979 since the u.s. pulled out their military and 1979
the US has been claiming they have no military in Taiwan since then and China is trying to like posture the us as being weak like we just pulled out of Afghanistan so they're trying to tell Taiwan
hey the u.s. is really unreliable as an ally don't depend on them because they might be here for you today but they might be gone tomorrow so no one's going to be here too
to you know keep us from taking over your land.

[36:12] But then the u.s. started warming up to Mainland China to Beijing when the Cold War happened because then they start being really focused on stopping Russia
and the US was viewing Russia as the biggest threat
during the 1970s and China was also viewing Russia as its biggest threat during the 1970s so that's when the u.s. started seeing China as more of a potential
Ally so the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Basically is what caused u.s. and the rest of the world to start recognizing Beijing as China.
So that's why in 1979 the u.s. shifted its recognition of China from.

[36:59] Taipei to Beijing and when they pulled out a 1979 and the pulled out of Taiwan they set up.
The Taiwan Relations Act which is when I see an articles right now.
They say the US is required by law to.
Supply Taiwan so it can defend itself that just makes basically means we're going to sell them weapons
and help them build up their own military so that they can defend themselves but there's no promise for the US to actually mobilize our
our military to actually come and fight if.
An aggressive or to come into Taiwan like there was there were some headlines this past week Biden said that we would defend them just like we would defend Korea or Japan or our allies and
so everybody got up in arms because they were like oh that's a change in the u.s. stance and I think.

[37:59] It is a classic bite and slip where he like says what's in his mind but.

[38:05] That goes against like what the official PR line is all right it's.
Yeah I can't help but always feel like.

[38:16] It's this constant pissing contest dick measuring contest yeah between China and the US like on everything even that slip of the tongue thing yeah vitamins are like oh we're going to.
Again it doesn't even matter if it's true or not or what the policy is or isn't it's a dick measuring contest yeah
it's just like well we're got all I'm fuck you up like where is I'm just say something to like show that I'm more powerful.

[38:47] They are you and that I have an advantage over you or someday I'm going to be able to dominate you,
yeah no matter what it is it's like oh my gosh can we just like stop so irritating I'm like so over it
Taiwan counting on us as an ally I think it's clear that us is very interested in not only having a relationship with Taiwan and access to Taiwan but also just
interested in democracy winning like I think that it would be bad for everyone if,
if Communism spread basically like we've seen all of the horrors of what communism has done to many countries over the
past you know hundred two hundred years so I I mean even though the US doesn't want to out over at least say it because it would piss off China and maybe accelerate things I think that the US would be an ally.

[39:47] And Japan has been a more vocal Ally this year too you know not just like what I was saying about the Olympics last time but actually they have said like published defense.
Strategy papers saying like actually it would be pretty important for Taiwan to remain as it is like its own government for Japan's national security.

[40:11] Yes talking about this as through the lens of As Americans it's it's really something that we can eat totally,
understand as parallel to some of the stuff that we go through over here in the US right we've become especially
aware of in the past few years more specifically since the Trump administration had taken.
Hold in the government in 2016 of the severity of the political and just general ideological divide,
that has further widened so much more in just the last five plus years.

[40:56] And in terms of people picking sides right talking about Taiwan and you know status quo has been yeah whatever but now it's like
woo things are hitting the fan pick a side and let's go it's been very heated and very problematic and
yeah we have a lot of issues similarly in the u.s. right between Democrats and Republicans and I mean it's it's not around Independence.
Love our country but it is about whatever it is there's a lot of the similar issues right people don't want to hear what the others.
Try to understand other side I know I run into those same issues to have just like don't even talk to me because I can't even hear your bullshit yeah right now.
But it is also important to try to understand that because it's like there's a reason people.

[41:43] Feel a certain way sometimes because they're racist assholes yeah times it's not that like there's a some sort of genuine,
thing behind it that they truly believe in it's not because they are outwardly sexist or racist or whatever it is like there's something.
In there and trying to understand that is is also really important but then there's also this whole thing about like different.
Parties and you know we hear a lot about how the Republican Party especially has like the the brand of the Republican Party.
Has been shifted so much that they're like Republicans right it's just like Trump equals Republican equals racist sexist piece of shit everything it all gets.

[42:26] All gets a you know connected to each other and people.
You know tie those things together when in actuality you're like the Republican party doesn't stand for the fundamental level right like certain things just like the Democrats again it's the same thing and then just gets almost together
people conflate one thing with another one really that's not what it's supposed to be and then.
Going from anything from you know these disinformation campaigns that we've been seeing two actual physical violence like we're six in our Capital like we have really really,
become very much at the.
But end of all of these Downstream effects of this I would consider political cluster Fox that has been building for so long even if it hasn't been obvious.
In the 80s and the 90s and early 2000s it has really come to a head mmm.
And it is does not seem to be getting any better.

[43:28] Frankly yeah and so it's like I don't know what the path forward is I don't think anybody really knows everyone's just sitting there like wanting to shank each other
yeah and for don't even know why anymore yeah and it's really frustrating yeah.
Well I mean I think like things are coming to a head things are heating up
and we need to be ready with knowing what do we want to happen for Taiwan and As Americans what would we Advocate to our,
representatives to decide for
you know the president and Congress in America are going to have to decide like are they going to invest our people our military
in getting involved and that's that's an open question right now and they need to hear from us.
Of like what we think before anything happens Because by the time it happens like it's too late they've already decided yeah so like I think you and I can agree that.

[44:41] Taiwan's self-governance is special and something to be preserved and it's worth.
Fighting for its and it's worth the US getting involved to help fight for that too because it is going to take the whole crew.
To preserve it the way that China is signaling that it wants to go yeah it takes a village mmm.

[45:09] Great yeah you can't just leave people on their own and don't defend on their own literally figuratively.

[45:17] You got to looking at it from not just an individual standpoint but for the greater good yeah of the collective.
Yeah right if you don't want to be a good person or whatever at least look at how is this going to benefit they'll yeah Community as a whole.
Yeah the global Community honestly like exactly yeah the global Community like this is this matters yeah to everybody.

[45:52] Because we're not going to talk about any like specific recommendation but all of this talk about.
The relationship with China is making me think about
how I spend my money because I know that China's power has largely come because they opened up economic trade with other countries and so they've amassed so much wealth because they have.

[46:19] Yo stepped on their own citizens in order to manufacture things super cheaply and infringed on Nolan intellectual property rights and everything so basically they have made the whole world dependent on them for supply chain.
And or so addicted to the low prices that we just keep sending money over there and.

[46:43] I totally recommend it just like last year when.
We all became very conscious of how white supremacy was affecting our whole society I started to become very conscious of,
when I spend money am I supporting businesses that support white supremacy or are fighting white supremacy like actively taking a stand and I feel like I have to do the same when I am shopping now,
because it feels like almost everything is made in China and.
It's it's a hard journey just like every time when I when I buy something I also am trying to think about what is
the most Eco conscious decision about how I consume now I'm also trying to look into the lens of what is the country of origin of this where was this manufactured.
And it's super hot I wish Amazon would put on a filter option for country of origin
because I just want like anything that is not China just so I'm not sending more money and basically more power I don't want to be funding their space program I don't want to be funding their military I don't want to be finding their expansionist you know.
No campaign and it's been so hard because it's been back to school for me and I've like.

[48:05] My preschooler like this is the first preschool I've been at we've been at that has said like you need to buy an app match for her cot and it's like a basically an open sleeping bag,
but I was like shopping for this phenomenon called nat mat and like.
Every single I could not find a single one that was not made in China even on Etsy.
All of the Etsy vendors were just personalizing not mats that were made in China the Etsy part of it was just adding personalization.

[48:35] And I was like I was like just started to try to like make this conscious effort to like buy things that are made in other countries and.
Nope not Matt very hard finding floss picks because my kids use floss picks to like make it easy for them to floss
floss picks all made in China because they're all their commodity items so they're always going to go for the lowest price but I did find one brand that was made in Taiwan and so I was like done so.
Yeah it's been it's been really hard but I am trying to be more conscious of it
so my my asked to listeners is if they have any swaps that they've made or they have like found a brand that is made
you know somewhere else.

[49:23] Let me know give me the recommendation and bonus points if it's more Earth friendly option for it I am,
looking for swaps to make in my life that are more eco-friendly less waste and also.
Less funding the things that threaten the people that I care about
yeah I think this is a great topic because and this is a good time to wear that kind of information is more accessible actually I was actually just other day was this.
Anyway Instagram influencer she.
Had this post recently that points to a bunch of indigenous American made mmm.
Products so to help support indigenous American Community right they have.
These businesses that are owned by indigenous Americans they make everything you know it's like there's stuff's on there like clothing there's like household
feel like candles accessories jewelry whatever again it's.

[50:32] It's going back to your whole point of looking at at least it all boils down to looking at.
Where what you're supporting with your money yeah no matter what that is right it's like to want to support more say like.

[50:47] Asian American-owned businesses you want to support more indigenous American-owned businesses do you want to support our or the opposite like not support,
certain types of businesses and business models yeah I think this is a great time.
To be able to do that because there's so much more of that so much more awareness around yeah
there's more information it's just really hard to break habits especially with like our culture of frugality like it's really hard for me to not buy the cheapest thing or you know shop Amazon and support,
phases not shut not shop like
the fastest thing that gets to me actually by nothing is faster than Amazon I like put something out where I needed like hair elastics for my daughter because I'm doing her hair every morning for school and I was like oh I need more of these hair elastics is a break but I don't want to buy a thousand from Amazon
I'm like the next morning I had two packs of paralyzed from people in my neighborhood so
hey guys oh yeah I love by nothing it's pretty cool to have some real that people put really good stuff on there yeah yeah we have benefited a lot from it.

[51:56] Yeah it definitely takes extra time but.
Bravo to you for being so conscious about it I am early on in that Journey let's just say I do let the.
The impulsiveness of myself and my theoretical need for something it does take over pretty quickly and it's hard for me to Reign that back so.
Definitely stuff that is good for all of us to think about yeah it's really hard to break that instant gratification habit like.

[52:30] And it's frustrating especially when I spent like
two days looking for those floss picks until looking for the nap not Matt and like Reagan us are frustrated with me and then like for me to like not come up with anything on the not matte and still buy something that was made in China that was frustrating but.

[52:48] Whenever I find some this is why we have hot spots for whatever I find stuff I'm kind of like share it on Instagram
right yeah oh boo this will help kick start my own journey of being more proactive and figure out where the hell my stuff comes from yeah.

[53:07] Thanks so much for joining us for hearts and Taiwan make sure to check out our show notes in the episode description for links to all of the sources of the data we share today.
You can follow and DMS on Instagram or Facebook at hearts and Taiwan or contact us through our website hearts and Taiwan.com.

[53:24] We'd love to hear from you let us know what you thought about this episode and what you want us to explore and ask about in a future episode until then follow your curiosity.
Follow your heart.

[53:34] Music.